dekedangle_rpfanon | #23 — Brown Goes Down

#23 — Brown Goes Down

This is the twenty-third post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Besides the dubiousness of "how can you expect anyone to act differently? all 29 other teams would do the same!!!" when your team is criticized for defending unconscionable plays -- didn't the Pens make some pretty critical comments after a James Neal suspension about Neal's hit being unacceptable and him needing to learn from the suspension and clean up his game? (Am I imagining that? Paging Pens fans.) At any rate, obviously saying something like that after a suspension is different from saying it before DoPS has made any decisions, but even "it was unfortunate" would have been infinitely better than what Trotz actually said, especially considering this is the second time in two games his team's committed a suspension-worthy offense.

The Pens also employed Matt Cooke for years.

NAYRT I don't remember what the Pens specifically said about one particular dirty hit from James Neal, or any of the others and I assure you there were plenty of others. He particularly liked knee into head and jumping into hits. What did they say about Orpik's hits when he was there? What about Matt Cooke's or Maxime LaPierre or Steve Downie?

As someone who hates both teams, they can both be really shitty and inexcusable at the same time.

AYRT Yes, that's the fucking point! Acting like Trotz is some kind of special evil is stupid, when all coaches and teams support their own player in the moment.

Look, I'm not defending the Caps or trying to hate on the Pens. This is just how it works. Claude Julien or now Darryl Sutter don't come out after a game and go "Yeah, that Milan Lucic, what an asshole, am I right, guys?"

No one is saying that the Caps are the only dirty team and the Pens have never, ever have dirty players or defended them in their history. Obviously not. I was just contesting the idea that the only possible, expected response to a bad hit is *mumble mumble excuses excuses.*

AYRT Yeah, that's my point. But I still think you're being ridiculous to expect anything else from the NHL. Did Torts publically rip Dubinsky a new one for crosschecking Crosby? Did Julien ever come out after a game and say that Lucic was a fucking lunatic who should be stopped? Did the coaches of the Wild or the Coyotes ever call out Matt Cooke for trying to end players' careers when he was on their teams?

Do you honestly think that Darryl Sutter or Michel Therrien or Lindy Ruff or Mike Sullivan would have given any other response to what happened in the last couple games?

DA

But they should and hoping that is not ridiculous. And saying something is "unfortunate" is lightyears away from saying it was "playing the right way". For me "unfortunate" is still something that makes me sad and hoping for the fucking better future, but "playing the right way" is just shitty, no matter who the coach saying it after the dirty hit is, and I'm going to be frustrated and sad about it, no matter how ridiculous that may feel.

And saying something is "unfortunate" is lightyears away from saying it was "playing the right way".

THIS THANK YOU.

+1

Also deflecting blame onto the player who was hit by saying that the head contact was caused by Maatta leaning down. Plays into the gross idea that player safety is the responsibility of players who just need to keep their heads up.

The dirty hit was in no way Matta's fault. He should not have been expected to avoid it. That being said, in other instances which don't involve dirty hits, player safety is partially the responsibility of players who need to keep their heads up. How many times have players collided with their own teammates? Or turned at the last second so that what would have been a clean hit suddenly becomes a dangerous one? The more awareness players have on the ice, the less potential for accidental injury there is.

ayrt

You're right. I should have specified I was talking about dirty hits, in situations where the receiving player shouldn't have been expected to avoid it. (And I was thinking very specifically of the language of the Colin Campbell emails)

That's one of the things that DOPS looks at and you can bet whether they dismiss it or agree with it, they'll mention it in the video. It's one of the things the commentators mentioned last night. It's not out of left field to bring it up or some kind of hurr durr thing to bring up.

I was talking about dirty hits, in situations where the receiving player shouldn't have been expected to avoid it.

There's nothing that Maatta does or doesn't do that makes this any less of a terrible hit. To suggest that Maatta is at fault for Orpik purposefully targeting his head with intent to injure is bad.

Have you ever watched a DOPS video? They assess whether the other player could have avoided the hit all the time. I think in this case they'll find that the hit was too high and late for that, but it's normal and reasonable for someone who hasn't been watching it in replays from every angle to say maybe his head was down and he was leaning into it, because if it had been a clean hit, that might have been why there was head contact. in this case, that's obviously not why there was head contact. But the alternative is Barry Trotz going, yep, that's dirty.

Re: Game Day Thread April 30, 2016

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-01 17:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Game Day Thread April 30, 2016

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-01 18:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Game Day Thread April 30, 2016

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-01 17:25 (UTC) - Expand

na

People can be as mad as they want, but Trotz didn't say that Orpik's hit, specifically, is "playing the right way." He was characterizing his play in general, throughout his career. You can agree or disagree with that assessment, but it is different from stating that the hit itself was just Orpik playing hockey "right."

He said, when talking about that specific hit, that it happened because a) size difference b) Määttä was leaning over c) the puck was coming over (which is the most ridiculous of all the excuses when look at the clip) AND d) everyone knows "he plays the game hard and the right way". If he actually meant that this wasn't typical of him and he usually plays nice and clean, he certainly didn't say it. He just said that he plays hard but the right way.

Washington coach Barry Trotz said he spoke with Orpik. Trotz relayed that Orpik thought the puck was coming back to Orpik and that he didn't intend to hit Maatta like that.

"He just finished on a hit," Trotz said. "There's a little size difference, and I think Maatta was leaning over a little bit. We'll let the league handle it."

--

Trotz defended Orpik's character and style of play while acknowledging that whatever the NHL decides, the Capitals will deal with it.

"If you know anything about Brooks, he plays hard, he plays clean," Trotz said. "He's not a dirty player. The Pittsburgh people know that. He plays the game hard but the right way."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/15438978/brooks-orpik-hit-olli-maatta-draws-ire-pittsburgh-penguins-coach-mike-sullivan

Implying that the fault partially lies with Maatta is shitty, but that quote about not being dirty/playing the right way sounds exactly like he's referring to his general career play to me. It would probably be easier to get context from footage of the actual interview, though.

Re: Game Day Thread April 30, 2016

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-01 16:41 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

I'm just talking about the comment about playing the right way, which does seem like a statement about Orpik's general career play. Even the espn article you linked wrote Trotz defended Orpik's character and style of play before reporting the quote.

I'm not saying you can't find anything wrong in Trotz' statements. But it seemed like nonnies thought he was specifically saying that high, late hits are the right way to play hockey, and I don't think his actual statement supports that reading. It seems clear to me that he talked about the hit, and then moved on to discussing Orpik's career play, and that's what he characterized as hard and clean/ playing "the right way."

I doubt anyone is actually surprised by Trotz's comments. And I don't think Pens fans could ever accuse him of being the only one to ever do that, not after they've been jammed up about Torts and Dubinsky for the same thing since December. The fact remains, though, that there ARE examples where coaches have publicly acknowledged bad hits. So saying that no coach ever would is untrue and derailing. And "everyone one else would do the same!" is a not a good reason to not be critical of particular instances when they happen.

+1

No one has even said that this attitude is typical to Trotz only or, FFS, even rare. Just that it's shitty.

Steve Downie didn't do anything egregious when he was with the Pens. He earned most of his PIMs fighting or losing his mind at the refs.

Or for just being Steve Downie - most egregious example I remember is him getting a penalty after Byfuglien took him out after Downie scored.

Man, that was an awful play. I'm still mad about that. Not as mad as I am about other things Byfuglien as done, but still, mad.

The Caps aren't my team, actually, and I wasn't trying to justify their reaction so much as put it in context. Yes, it is still shitty when teams do this (which is why I said people are justified being upset), but teams and coaches don't generally criticize their players publicly about anything unless they're making a point. This is not something uniquely horrible about the Caps or Trotz, which some nonnies were acting like was the case.

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