#23 — Brown Goes Down

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This is the twenty-third post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Comments

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

RME.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

You really think current Malkin is worth 9.5 million a year? It's not 2012 anymore.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

na

Not even a huge Malkin fan, but, um, yes? Obviously it's unrealistic to expect that Malkin's level of play won't deteriorate as he ages, but given how much guys are getting paid now, that contract is going to look better before it starts to look worse. Honestly, asking if Malkin is worst 9.5 is laughable when Toews is getting 10.5, Perry is getting 8.625, Voracek is getting 8.25....

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

*if Malkin is WORTH 9.5

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I wouldn't bother engaging. I'm pretty sure this is Malkin Hateboner Nonny, and nothing you say will get through.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, you could say he's not worth 9.5, but he'd still be in that ballpark even if 9.5 is overpaying.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, this just shows how Malkin is living off his past reputation and not his current production. He and Perry have similar numbers over the last few seasons, with Perry having more goals. You can bring up PPG all you want, but people don't pay for hypothetical production. I don't even hate Malkin (just how overrated he is), but his contract is definitely not better than the ones you listed. He can't stay healthy, can't win a faceoff, isn't great defensively, the wingers he played with throughout the season (Hornqvist, Kessel, Perron, Hagelin, hell, even Plotnikov) all looked significantly better once they were taken off his line... the idea that he's as equally valuable to the Pens as Toews is to the Blackhawks is hilarious. The Pens would be exactly where they are now even if Malkin was sitting in the press box. So no, he is not worth his contract and if he hadn't injured his elbow (which allowed the HBK line to develop), the Pens probably wouldn't be in the ECF.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

A healthy Malkin would have done just fine with Hagelin and Kessel. Or if it totally bombed, they could play those two with the other superstar center that's just as fast as they are.

I mean the rest of this is pure garbage, but the HBK myth is perpetuated even by Malkin fans and it's getting to be ridiculous. HBK isn't amazing because of the B. HBK is amazing because of the K, with some good support from the H. If the K stayed amazing, so would any center with even a modicum of skill.

You know who looked like flaming trash all year until he was handed the best wingers on the team? Nick Bonino. It's almost like when you play a decent player with a really good player and a superstar, the decent player looks better...

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Again, with Malkin it's always what "could have" or "would have" happened. HBK has been the most productive line for the last couple of months and Bonino has been good enough that Malkin has been demoted to playing with Kunitz and Fehr. Trying to diminish Bonino's impact doesn't change the fact that he's been better than Malkin throughout the playoffs and that Malkin's line is basically the leftovers who don't fit anywhere else. He's the fourth most important center on the roster right now but has one of the highest cap hits in the league. His salary grossly overrates his importance to the Pens. Sorry, but it's the truth.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

LMAO ok who's to say the Pens would be in the ECF if Geno and Flower weren't keeping the team up at the start of the season.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Right, and now Flower's the backup goalie and there's a chance he'll be traded to avoid losing Murray in the upcoming expansion draft. A player's value can change quickly in sports. It doesn't mean that Flower is suddenly a terrible player. It's just that he is no longer viewed as essential to the team's success. I'm not saying Malkin isn't a good player; I'm saying he's not essential to the team's current and future success.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

I can maybe understand trying to claim no player is worth that much. It's unrealistic as hell, but I can sort of get it. But if you don't think Malkin is in the top echelon of all NHL players, you're smoking crack. You're not going to be able to get a Malkin-level player for cheaper.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't that the general crux with how paying players in the NHL works, especially faces of the franchise type players who had success early on when they couldn't earn as much as they were worth then? so what might become a bad contract in the future is still signed based on past success and the hope that maybe a few more good years are left before an inevitable rebuild?

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

DA
Yes, this is how that works. I mean, sometimes those contracts work out really well for a team - think about Seguin's current contract, or Keith's - but you are paying for hypothetical production based on past performance. There are age prediction curves and flukey occurrences (like Jagr's everything), but teams have to factor in some depreciation when locking players into long-term contracts.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

SA
Let's scratch Seguin's from the discussion, actually. His next contract will be a billionty payday.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

See: the Seabrook deal. That thing is going to be fucking painful a few years from now.

The Malkin contract is still one I wouldn't want, though, especially when you consider the Bergeron and Thornton contracts. Both are faces of the franchise who are still producing tops on their team, are significantly less injured, and also paid significantly less.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

The Seabrook deal looked painful this year. And it's for so many years too.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Current Malkin, no. But sports - all sports - are fickle and what looks like a good deal when the contract is signed doesn't mean ANYTHING for the future.

I'm not a Hawks or a Pens fan but comparing Malkin to Toews is laughable.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

In the middle of the Washington series less than two weeks ago, Malkin was the Pens leader in playoff points. That was with Fehr and Kunitz on his line. His contract sure seemed worth it then.

Sports are fickle and although the HBK line has been doing well, that has meant the comparatively weaker lines, both Malkin's and Crosby's, have suffered. That doesn't mean that generational talents are no longer generational talents.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

He's also almost definitely playing injured. I think Horny has been, too. Before blocking that shot, I mean. Anyway I don't know why the Malkin hateboner blowhard is trying so hard or why other people are handwringing about Malkin getting traded, when the real person to be anxious and worried about as far as I'm concerned is Flower. I like Murray just fine but I would have much rather gotten here with Flower and I don't know what's in his future this summer.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

na

I don't think Flower's getting traded this summer, because one hot playoff run is just not enough to not only make a 21-year-old your starter but trade away your insurance, too. I think we're going to see Flower starting next year but Murray playing a bunch of games, too (or possibly vice versa), and if all goes well, probably trade Flower next summer. So I'm not "worried" so much as already convinced we don't have Flower much longer. Which breaks my heart tbh, because he's one of my favorites and he's always been here.

And yeah, I definitely appreciate Murray's contributions and what he's accomplished, but I've been a member of the Flower Playoffs Redemption Squad for years now, and I'm bummed he's stuck on the sidelines through all this.

Also can I just say before we settle on Murray for good, can we please do something about those huge rebounds off his pads. They about give me a heart attack every time.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

It isn't just about Malkin's performance in the playoffs. Malkin's absence at the end of the regular season and his performance in the playoffs this year only proves that the Pens are capable of being the best team in the league without him being a factor. (And no, his one good offensive game against a terrible Rangers PK and goalie in the midst of a meltdown does not mean he's played well overall.) And you really can't compare Malkin and Crosby considering the fact that Crosby always faces the toughest match-ups and still outperforms Malkin.

My larger point is about his injury history. He's only played more than 70 games once this decade (and the other he season came close to that total, 2014-2015, he played injured down the final stretch so he was scoreless in the last few regular season games + the playoffs). Now that the Pens have a roster and a system where he isn't relied upon to be the number two guy, is it really worth it to invest so much into an aging, injury prone player for a team that is already top-heavy? I say no.

People often bring up Toews as an example of bad contract, but Toews actually has more points and goals than Malkin in the last four seasons, all while being a perennial Selke candidate. When's the last time Malkin finished in the top 10 in points? Goals? Hart voting? I mean, points per game is a nice stat, but that's not helpful when you're sitting in the press box. Malkin has had 3 great regular seasons, and 1 great playoff run, but he hasn't done anything lately to show that he's a generational talent. Crosby is a lock to be near the top in scoring and Ovechkin is a lock for the Rocket every year. What has Malkin done lately to be comparable to them? Maybe at one point, but they left him behind a long time ago.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Not a Pens nonnie, and oh I had no idea he was injured this much. Otoh, how many games did he miss on average during those seasons, because it's one thing for a team to do well without one of it's best player for a little while, or them having a rough stretch , and another to miss their contribution altogether when any replacement just wouldn't come near their level of talent.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Is there a phrase for the equivalent of "first world problems" in hockey? Because this is it.

Re: General fandom discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Toews actually has more points and goals than Malkin in the last four seasons

This is such an insanely silly and arbitrary comparison to prove that one player is better/more valuable than another. Malkin has more points than Toews in the last five seasons; if that's too long a time range when talking about current worth, Malkin also has more points than Toews in the last three (and two) seasons -- so you obviously picked the timeframe that would include one of Toews' best seasons (and one of Malkin's worst) and omit one of Malkin's best. Furthermore, in the last four seasons, it was only the least recent one (2012-13) where Toews had more points than Malkin; this season they were tied, and in each of the last two, Malkin had more points. That's not even taking points per game into account -- which actually should be taken into account. Sure, Toews being able to play more consistently than Malkin is a point in his favor and part of his value. But being capable of high-scoring performances is also valuable, because being able to score more per game directly impacts your team's chances of winning a given game on a given night.