#24 – Not Sure If Serious or Playing Dumba

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This is the twenty-fourth post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Comments

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Oh Chicago...

Some recent #Blackhawks cap casualties:
Byfuglien
Campbell
Brouwer
Ladd
Bolland
Frolik
Leddy
Saad
Sharp
Oduya
Teravainen
(to be continued)

I wonder how sustainable their, err, model is in the long run. I assume not very.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

I guess it only has to last as long as their core players are good. When they get old the team likely has to bottom out again to replace them since that kind of talent is difficult to get outside of the top 5 in the draft.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Not only age: until now their core players were relatively cheap. Starting now two of them earn big money, that makes everything else more difficult.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's ruthless but the most efficient way to go about it. Not sure even the Hawks would be coldblooded enough to ship out both Toews and Kane in their mid-thirties for a full team blow up though.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

They won three Cups. No matter the cost, pretty sure they think it was worth it.
And as a not-Hawks fan, three Cups in so few years is really enough for at least a decade...

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

I think six years is already the long run in hockey terms, so it could end tomorrow. Not sure why it matters, though. Even if they get absolutely crappy and come in last next year and get the first overall pick, the three cups won't be rescinded or anything. And they'd just start rebuilding.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah true, I probably should have said "going from here". I just don't think with their contracts the rebuild will be quick.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Meh, what's a quick rebuild? Has any team successfully done that? Maybe the Lightning could count? I don't think a quick rebuild is realistic for any team regardless of what contracts they have.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

DA

depends on how you define a rebuild. The Pens have changed their entire roster except iirc seven players in two years.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

na

I don't think it counts as a rebuild if you've still got the same core, which the Pens do.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

da

I mean, the Blackhawks still very much have the same core. It just remains to see what they'll be able to do with them with the state of their contracts.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

na

Complete tear down rebuilds aren't the only way to go. If they win another Cup seven years from now, they'll probably still have Kane, Toews& Keith still on the roster but everything else will have changed. Edmonton is not the only model.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Agree. Pens real rebuild will happen when Sid/Geno/Tanger are all traded/retired. It will probably be painful.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Somehow I always thought a rebuild meant sucking so they get top picks? And not just trading players. Like, whatever Edmonton is trying to do.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

da

Was going to say this -- also, as recently as the end of the 14-15 season, the Pens were getting fucked over by the cap and people said their window had closed. Also the Flyers -- obviously not the same level of success, but they made the SCF as recently as 2010. They've turned over pretty much their entire roster except Giroux since then. This year was supposed to be a rebuild year for them, but they still made the playoffs (and came in as a better team than the Hawks according to most analytics).

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I would not count the Pens. Your team generational talent can't be the same person(s) both before and after a rebuild and you can't make the playoffs every year of a rebuild either. That's just a new GM.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Late to the long discussion and haven't read the whole subthread yet, sorry if I'm repeating what others have said.

I believe a rebuild means booting a majority of your core (or the foundation of it) and finding new pieces to build around. Toronto moving out Phil and Phaneuf are a rebuild. The Flames trading Iggy was a rebuild.

To me, the Pens retooled. They changed around a lot of the periphery pieces and added Phil to the core, sort of, but it's still Letang, Crosby, Malkin at the center of that team. St. Louis getting rid of Oshie would count as minor retooling to me too. Tampa letting Stamkos go would not be in rebuilding mode, but retooling I think as they'd have most of the same core in place.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

Nashville kind of did a quick rebuild depending on if you put Weber and Rinne in the same group of core players as Legwand and Erat, I guess. I don't think most would consider them part of the core right now at least when you're talking about a window to win in. Still haven't done much on either side of things though compared to Tampa.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

IMO, Nashville did a rebuild ("rebuilding on the fly", as Poile put it), but they didn't have quite the same amount of boom and bust as some anons think rebuilding requires. They went from what was considered a bit of a contender, lost a big name player and traded away a top line winger, had a horrible season thanks to injury to land them a top pick (which still wasn't a 1C...), and through some savvy trades managed to land top line players while prospects panned out. It's not glamourous and there's no Cup, but that's pretty much how it should be done.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

na

I mean, obviously three cups makes anything that comes afterwards worth it. No question about that. But the issue is that you either want to contend or you want to rebuild. And the Blackhawks are currently in a position where it seems like they're going to have trouble doing either, no matter which they choose, for quite a while. Not that it undermines anything they've achieved, but it also doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy seeing it happen.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

You make the degradation and rebuilding of a team sound like an easy, quick, painless process. It's very much not. No one will think of it as the price of success after years (or decades) of bottom feeding, not the fans nor the people who hate them.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

In 2030, they will be angry, but until then, it's not that big of a deal.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

People will be angry almost as soon as they start sucking.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

NA
yeah, I'd say as soon as they don't make the playoffs (which I think will happen pre-2030) people will get real mad. That's the "problem" winning teams have-their fans come to always expect that level of success and as soon as it falls off the rage sets in.

Re: What is <i>up</i> with your team? –– non-SCF edition

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I'm not trying to make it sound like a quick painless process. But all things being equal, teams go 30 years without a cup, and unless they are the St. Louis Blues are only contending about half or so of the time. That's not some horrible misstep; that's average. It's hard to see Chicago as particularly interesting in some way when a lot of the teams whose window is also closing don't even have those cups.