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dekedangle_rpfanonThis is the sixth post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.
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THE RULES
1. Mods retain the right to delete, freeze, and/or screen threads and comments.
2. Meme rules do not require warnings.
3. Respect flock. Do not repost or share information from private tumblrs, locked twitter accounts, flocked LJ posts, etc.
4. No linking fans to their real life identities.
5. No looks bashing or body shaming. This applies to players and people associated with those players and their clubs, as well as fellow fans.
6. No embedded music.
7. No embedded images.
8. No spamming the meme, whether through repeated comments or other means.
Meme rules do not require spoiler cuts. However, this layout does allow for them. Any of the following tags will create a spoiler cut when closed: <div cut>, <span cut>, <font cut>, <font color="white">
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Next post opens at 5,000 comments.
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Still hasn't unblocked me, and I was only ever perfectly civil to him (he didn't like people I publicly agreed with). TheDukeOfAvon's fic "Only the game fish swims upstream" expresses the perfect mix of positive and negative feelings I feel towards YCP and Burke himself. The intentions are good and the effort is there but, equally, he would stand up and say things like you could be against marriage equality and still a good teammate and ally. Sorry. No. He is very invested in hockey as the most accepting and welcoming sport and the best image possible for pro sports. But he wouldn't, for example, challenge things like what happened to Michael Sam, because if it theoretically could have been sportsrelated he wouldn't accept that it probably wasn't; and as soon as something would happen with a hockey player he would bend over backwards to sweep it under the carpet. A very appearance-focused organisation. Appearances are important, I subscribe to the broken window theory, but it's not complete for me to say "You can hate gay people as long as you don't actively call them fags in the locker room".
I'm not all negative on him or the org. When he was more closely involved with YCP I remember him doing some excellent and admirable stuff with trans athletes, which is a really, really, really important area and one that is far less socially acceptable and understood than gay and bisexual people. But I don't think he's perfect or his assessment of people's characters is perfect. When someone says "He thinks Tyler Seguin is an asshole", my response is pretty much "Yeah but he thinks a bunch of my friends and I are assholes and we're all gay."
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Burke gets it left and right from journalists, angry fanbases bc of DOPs, and homophobes.
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)This is not your therapy session and I'm not here to learn about your or your groups personal beef with him. Having different ideologies about how to go about things doesn't mean that he's not doing good things. His way is helping all those college and high school kids come out, which is more than can be said for what any other group or armchair twitter people have done.
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)yeah, I guess my coming out in high school did fuck all for other gay teens coming out in high school, eh? the time and money I give to queer organisations is meaningless in the fight against homophobia.
I haven't said he never did anything good, for the record. But if you're going to be The Official Arbitrator Of Whether What That Hockey Player Did Was Homophobic Or Not - and you can see people saying exactly that in this thread - it is actively destructive to say things like "you can be a good ally and anti marriage equality".
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)well, I came out in high school and the change that happened in my world was a) slightly improved sex ed for the closeted queer women/girls I knew ("I thought you couldn't pass STDs from women to women" <- actual thing said) and b) an easier path for every other person who's ever wanted to come out. like, that is the whole point of coming out. Coming out is, in and of itself, activism. It changes the world because it changes the people around you. It might not feel that way to you but seeing other people come out sure made it easier for me.
I sincerely think that Ellen Degeneres being out has done more for acceptance of lesbians and gay men than probably any other activism in the last 30 years - obviously neither you nor I have her platform but ... yeah. I think it does mean something. Also, I don't know where you are or when you came out, but man attitudes towards gay people have changed so, so much in the last fifteen years. I think you were part of that, and I was part of that. And Ellen was a bigger part of that ...
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)I didn't say that you hadn't done anything!? Every LGBT* person that comes out is doing a world of good.
People's stances change and he does a lot of fishing like that on twitter anyway. I HATE the We Need To Educate mindset but Burke sticks to and and chiseles away at people. He engages thoughtfully with obvious homophobic trolls and he doesn't given up on players that may be okay with gay people but think marriage equality is wrong. Every single survey has shown that if you know gay people you're more likely to support their rights. Saying that may get them to ally status, and the next thing they know they're voting no on 8.
He's working to make stuff with athletes better. Maybe the gay athletes he's talked to have said they just don't want their teammates to be shitty to them in the showers or spit on their boyfriends. Gay marriage isn't their main issue when daced with that. YCP would want to tackle that first and so they would. Athletes and fans may take more steps into the gay camp and support gay players if they knew they didn't have to change their ideologies. They're not a marriage equality group.
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)His way is helping all those college and high school kids come out, which is more than can be said for what any other group or armchair twitter people have done.
I think you did, actually.
Yes, people's stances changed. I applaud that. He's far less involved with the org than he should have been, as well. Yes, he engages with people. But you know, that's what gets me: he'll spend more energy on obvious homophobic trolls than he will listening to the people he claims to represent. I'm not saying he's the devil or that he's never done anything good. But an organisation that tells people that the standard of behaviour they need to reach is not spitting on people is an organisation that is going to struggle to get my support, and an individual who tells me that I should be happy with that is going to struggle to get the same.
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Nowhere there is a you. I'm sorry if you took it thay way but if you look at his mentions during coming out moments you see a lot of 'Why don't you have anyone out in the NHL yet' or any other unhelpful or un uncontrollable suggestions for how he could be doing more. If you do that then I understand how you could see how that would apply to you but from what you've said, you don't go after him for the number of gay athletes so I don't see you as in that group.
He does interact with gay people, though. It sucks if you caught him on a bad day or a day when he was doing one of his two jobs, jobs thay have ended his dating relationships because of how busy he is juggling them, but him not replying to you on twitter or not taking the time to fully engage a nuanced debate in 140 incraments doesn't mean he doesn't care about your POV or think about what you said. He is human just like we all are and at the end of the day it's his job to suspend guys and make LGBT people feel safe in all levels of sport.
I wouldn't trust him on making 99 per cent correct calls on DOPS related things but I believe he's got an eye for spotting bigots and homophobes with 99 per cent accuracy.
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)Of course I don't go to his mentions to harass him about not having an out gay player yet. That would be ludicrous and isn't in his control in any way. But when you say "His way is helping all those college players come out which is more than any twitter warrior has ever done", you seem to me to be implying that his methods are unimpeachable because none of his critics are activists. In fact, some of his critics are activists. A lot of his critics are out gay people.
I'm not really sure why you're so invested in defending Burke, tbh. No doubt his life is really hard. So is everyone's. He makes my life harder when he says that it's OK to be anti marriage equality, sorry about his breakups or whatever???
Re: Types of fic you want to see more of
From: (Anonymous)I'm saying that he doesn't have a spare minute for his personal life, so maybe don't take it as a slight agianst him or personal attack towards you that he would rather not reply or mute some people. He knows that people don't agree with him and not seeing your specific tweets doesn't mean that he doesn't see opposition or that he isn't a solid barometer for people who might be unrepentant in their actions.
You've already said you think Segs probably has issues so I don't know why you're trying to discredit Burke, who seems to agree with you on this and other LGBT issues. Just because you don't see eye to eye on everything doesn't mean either of you is wrong or bad for the cause, as you yourself said, or that he isn't a good judge of character.