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This is the eleventh post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
I know nothing about her IRL but I find it very odd that every area of expertise I've seen her claim (scientist, commentator on how journalism and/or legal proceedings works) she's been profoundly wrong about.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
I wish she'd GTFO of these fandom spaces and hang out with her kindred spirits of horribleness at r/hawks (not everyone there is horrible, but the people persistently commenting on the top thread trend that way).

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
I know it's an inflammatory word but I can't think of what she's doing as anything but bullying at this point. Her attempts to clear a space for her long, wrong, passive aggressive statements defending Kane just viscerally disgust me.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
nayrt

Isn't she just doing this on that forum, or is she doing it elsewhere? Is she engaging other people or just posting her own opinions first?

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
She's mostly doing it on the forum after she was shouted down on tumblr, but she is engaging other people. She's language policing and trying to basically make the Patrick Kane Investigation thread the "fannishtalk defends Patrick Kane's innocence" thread. Despite other people, for example, id'ing as survivors and asking her to stop using belittling language re: the accuser.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
NA

Despite other people, for example, id'ing as survivors and asking her to stop using belittling language re: the accuser.

I haven't read the forums or followed anything to do with fannishtalk, but, so there's that caveat, but in general, I'm wary of the idea that survivors should decide what language is allowed and what language isn't. Perhaps in this situation it seems obvious, but eventually, where do you draw the line about what makes us comfortable and supported and safe versus what people should be able to say? And I say "us" because I'm a CSA and multiple rape survivor. I know my view is highly unorthodox, especially as a survivor, but I feel like if I have the right to say anything I want about my experiences and how I react to things, shouldn't everyone else? I don't want anyone restricting my voice about what I've been through, so it feels hypocritical if I restrict someone else.

Obviously I haven't read the thread so I don't know exactly what's going on, but it's a pet peeve of mine whenever people mention the idea that someone should be able to restrict what someone says. Sorry if I'm way out of line with this.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
I agree that survivors shouldn't be allowed to dictate what language is used, but I do think that it adds some context to their requests. Someone's words having a certain weight isn't, to me, the same thing as them having absolute control over what gets said or how something gets talked about. Apologies if I miscommunicated. I only meant that it struck me as disrespectful/rude/shitty, because she basically belittled people who said "hey, as someone who was 'that girl', I'd like if we used more respectful language".

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt

Oh, yeah, if she belittled them for identifying themselves as survivors, that's uncalled for.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
Well, she didn't belittle them for identifying themselves as survivors, but she did belittle them for asking her to change her language. It struck me as particularly insensitive specifically because they're survivors.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
DA

I am wary of this as well, though for a different reason; I don't think people should have to publicly declare that they're a survivor to participate in those discussions. There are plenty of survivors who are not comfortable sharing that widely (especially, for instance, in more male-dominated hockey discussion spaces where it might be used against us later) and no one should feel like they have to in order to have their voice be legitimate.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
AYRT

This is also a good point. For me, that's my secondary reason. In real life it would be my first reason, but online I'm okay with sharing the fact that "this happened to me" because no one knows who I am. They can't come and hurt me. Offline, though, I would never tell anyone.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
DA

I think it's a reasonable concern, but also a little - I don't know, misplaced? I think people being required to have personal experience with something to express an opinion is very different from the opinion having a different weight because of their personal experience. The latter is more or less inevitable when you're talking about issues that are so focused on identity like misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. But of course, there needs to be balance - Tumblr-style rabid demands of self-identification can be rude at best, predatory at worst. But I do think being a survivor does mean I have a different perspective, and I definitely think that perspective should be considered, especially when I'm telling an armchair lawyer like fannishtalk that she's wrong about a legal process I have personal experience with.

(Also, I don't think identifying as a survivor gives me particular social power. Often, it leads even so-called feminist to dismiss me as irrational when I argue for reasonable accommodations or anti-rape policy informed by victims' experiences. But that's a side issue.)

/didn't actually talk to fannishtalk, but sadly has had this experience before

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
na

I feel like if I have the right to say anything I want about my experiences and how I react to things, shouldn't everyone else?

No, I don't think so. You are in a unique position as a survivor, as a) you have gone through some shit that has affected your life, and b) you have a perspective that other people do not. Just because you are able to speak out of your experience, why should that make other people equally free to speak out of their inexperience?

Now, I don't think how that "should" work out in practice is always very clear. But while everyone obviously is allowed to have whatever reaction they want to, for example, a pro athlete being investigated for rape, I don't think think that means every opinion is equally valid or should be voiced in the public arena with equal volume.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
da

why should that make other people equally free to speak out of their inexperience?

Eh, I don't think not having gone through something yourself means you can't ever speak about it or have an opinion about it. As a woman living in the same fucked-up culture as everyone else, do I not get to have feelings about rape and rape culture and how endorsement of it feels because no one's raped me yet? That's stupid.

I don't think think that means every opinion is equally valid or should be voiced in the public arena with equal volume.

I also think this is true. The opinions of people with experiences related to something should be given more weight. That doesn't mean you can't ever disagree with them (Chryssie Hynde said she was responsible for her own rape, and I am never going to agree with that) or that no one else can express an opinion. It's just something else to weigh when you're discussing something.

Re: Patrick Kane

From: (Anonymous)
She dominates the discussion on stickhandled with long, incorrect TL;DRs with info from all the lawyers she knows. She also answers anonymous questions on Tumblr with some of this info. I honestly suspect she sends herself most of these anons because I don't see too many people actually engaging her while named.