#26 — Vanek! with a Jurco

[dekedangle_rpf_mod]

This is the twenty-sixth post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Comments

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Unless you want to talk about why your view of hockey is so whitewashed that you can't think of any connections between hockey players in general and victims of colonialism

Yeah, the problem is definitely that my view of hockey is whitewashed.. when "hockey players in general" are overwhelmingly white, and the whole beaver convo started as a hypothetical generalizing of Canadian hockey players... and my whole point is that I don't find colonialism an appropriate subject for generalizing, not when that general category includes a tiny number of victims of colonialism and a disproportionate huge number of beneficiaries of it. Tell me, what are the connections between "hockey players in general" and victims of colonialism?

I also like how I'm sucking the fun of the conversation by being so absurd as the bring up the colonial implications of werebeavers, of all things... when you were the one who brought the oh so lighthearted subject of colonialism into the fun werebeaver conversation to begin with by suggesting we contemplate the implications of werebeavers on a real life history of colonialism??

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

sa

Also, speaking of condescending, it should have been clear that nothing about the ~~were-canon was stretching my oh-so-feeble imagination to the breaking point. I was trying to be polite in expressing my astonishment at your wanting to imagine a fanfic au history where werebeavers are the victims of colonialism. And yeah, you were definitely thinking specifically and exclusively of First Nations players when you said... "hockey players in general"? Ok.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Well, then, you failed on multiple fronts.

It is not impossible for bad things to have happened in both reality and fiction, and for people to still realize they were bad. Since you decided you wanted to sit around and poke at the minutiae of the implications of a single comment that really wasn't that content-heavy, then yes, it'd obviously be the First Nations people, and as an extent current First Nations players, who would be the hunted werebeavers in this scenario. As you, I, and everyone else knows, this would still be a bad thing.

I did manage to that conclusion all by myself. Despite your obvious doubt, you're not the only person who knows the two aspects of Canadian history necessary to come to that conclusion. Historical fantasy may not be your thing, but your astonishment and judgment isn't necessary.

My "in general" was meant to differentiate the general discussion of werebeavers from those specifically talking about Crosby. Sorry for any confusion.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

The problem isn't that bad things can't happen in both reality and fiction. My objection obviously isn't to historical fiction, it's to fiction that rewrites a real history so that its victims are now a different group of people, or include a different group of people. It's really fucking obvious you didn't actually mean First Nations players in your comment, which as you said yourself, was adding a non-content heavy "let's link this to the history of colonialism" about a general discussion that was definitely more clearly linked to white Canadians than it was to First Nations people (race wasn't specified, but the general group of hockey players is largely white, and the conversation sprang from a discussion of Crosby/Malkin). That shouldn't have to be something that is teased out in the "minutiae," because there's a huge difference between writing First Nations players into that story versus hockey players in general, and writing it with First Nations people (or at least POC who were also historically victimized in the process of colonialism) is the only way in which it's not terribly offensive.

I don't know why you feel the need to insult my knowledge of "two aspects" of Canadian history. The fact that I haven't chosen to write a dissertation in my comment has no bearing on the shittiness of yours. Honestly, if now you're saying "it'd obviously be the First Nations people," all you had to say is that now that you've actually given it some thought (obviously you hadn't if you call this sitting around poking at minutiae), you realize it this should be specifically about First Nations people, instead of this strawman, backpeddling bullshit where your critics just don't have the capacity of imagination to deal with the existence of historical fiction and "hockey players in general" is clearly supposed to be understood as "First Nations hockey players but not Crosby"... right... I'm not sure what "conclusion" you managed to come to all by yourself if you still haven't realized why it's gross to make race a "minutiae" in a fictional history of colonialism.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Just... LMAO. I already wasn't really planning on whatever defensive crap you spewed next, but just for the heck of it, I'm going to emphasize that you can't read my mind. You are putting words into my mouth to fit your argument.

You couldn't have known, and are wrong about, me "really fucking obvious"ly not giving any consideration to First Nations people. It is not backpedaling to say that I came to a similar conclusion about what werebeaver hunting would mean in colonial Canada. We could have agreed if you had decided on any other track than insulting my intelligence and assuming the absolute worst of my intentions at every opportunity (since, hey, I was talking myself actually knowing a thing or two, but it's not shocking at this point that you managed to turn that around). If you had said, "French colonialists hunting (were)beavers to near extinction could be an extension of the drain they put on First Nation lives and resources," or something Carey Price not feeling safe in Montreal, or anything at all that established this mutually reached conclusion, I could have said, "Yes, exactly!". But instead you appointed yourself a "critic" over a conversation partner, and decided to spend however many comments with your I'm-educating-a-racist-idiot glasses on while (at this point, I can only assume) deliberately building up things that were not meant.

So, really, really, you had no way of knowing my intention, and I'd say way you went around trying to figure it out the wrong way if I actually thought you had any interest in understanding me. It's still honestly baffling that you tried to say your replies were polite, or anything short of pure condescension.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

If you "came to similar conclusion" (which you only stated after the critique of your first comment), it follows that the first comment wasn't referring to First Nations people (because why wouldn't you have specified otherwise?), and therefore the criticism of it was fair. "French colonialists hunting (were)beavers to near extinction could be an extension of the drain they put on First Nation lives and resources" STILL has the same problems if those werebeavers are in fact white Canadians. This was not a "mutually reached conclusion" if you didn't state a correction to your comment before someone criticized you, and because every step of the way you have defended yourself through disingenuity and bending logic. You're essentially saying "I already knew that! You're being mean!" to someone pointing out what it wasn't at all evident that you knew. I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked, but your comments are open to criticism on their own grounds, and regardless of what you "meant" or intended, it doesn't change the fact the effect your comment had. I'm not sure why you think someone's first interest should be in "understanding you," rather than pointing out what they perceive to be a racist line of thinking.

Re: white-washing -- you honestly think someone who is trying to point out your erasure of First Nations people by headcanoning an AU where white people could potentially be victims of colonialism, too, has overlooked the fact that there are First Nations hockey players? The existence of Carey Price and a handful of others doesn't mean that "hockey players in general" can stand in as "victims of colonialism" when "hockey players in general" are overwhelmingly white even when they aren't Sidney Crosby. Like, the fact that you are still trying to argue this makes me question what conclusions you think you've reached, tbh. You can't possible expect anyone to believe you were thinking of the history First Nations people playing hockey in the context of hockey rpf fic about werebeavers.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Just. Just take a second and realize how ridiculous this whole argument is.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

da

My "in general" was meant to differentiate the general discussion of werebeavers from those specifically talking about Crosby.

What does that have to do with the fact that you accused someone of "whitewashing" for not buying that there's a connection between "hockey players in general" and "victims of colonialism," as if once you specify you're not talking about Crosby, it's suddenly a thing that makes sense to say? You clearly weren't referring to or thinking about the First Nations people until someone pestered it out of you (as you pretty much admit yourself), so regardless of what conclusion you've now apparently reached, you did actually do what they accused you of, which is generalize a historically specific atrocity.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

which is generalize a historically specific atrocity

For the sake of headcanoning a werebeaver AU, because that's part of the tradition of the "were-canon"!!

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Hockey players as a general population, which includes First Nations players, as opposed to hockey players named Sidney Crosby, which excludes First Nations players.

I called it whitewashing because I perceived their comment to be inherently excluding victims of colonization-First Nations peoples-from the hockey population, especially since there's a non-insignificant history of First Nations people playing hockey dating back to the time in question. I haven't come to any new conclusions by being pestered. Believe what you wish.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

I can't believe this entire argument is about werebeavers.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

NA

I'm always kind of amazed as to what people will wank over. Tbh I was enjoying it more when it was about whether people would believe the existence of werebeavers than the weird dovetail into racewank, but it's still amazing how anything can lead to wank.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't think arguing whether people would believe in werebeavers was wank. That was just disagreement in a discussion.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

NA

I was completely uninterested in there werebeaver conversation so I was cheerfully scrolling and deleting the thread from my inbox when I saw what it has descended into. This isn't the worst meme I've ever been on when it comes to wank, but it takes it the most seriously.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Me neither.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

This is truly a new depth reached by meme.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Don't tempt fate nonny. That's what I thought after meme's last dumb wank and look where we are.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Which one was that?

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

My money's on "meaning of redeye" wank.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

I'm betting legal definition of kidnapping in the state of New York.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Anything with people arguing against a textbook definition put right in front of them, really.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

It's an argument about someone who thought it would be fun to bring the real-life history of colonialism into an AU about werebeavers.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Yes this is about ethics in werebeaverism. No one is actually going to write this.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

SA
Also, I gotta say that the indigenous people turning into animals trope is not one I want fic for. I vote the Canadian Olympic committee dopes its players and the side effect is werebeaverism.

Re: Fic Discussion - an island entire of itself

[(Anonymous)]

Na

Hell, I vote that anyone born on Canadian soil during the full moon is a werebeaver, and there, it solves all the dam problems.