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This is the eleventh post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
Remember, that's the lowest estimate ayrt had ever seen. The estimates I've seen are usually around 10%. That would be 70; less is probably closer to the truth for reasons that you mentioned. 13 doesn't seem like an unreasonable number to me.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
I agree that self-selecting probably lessens the number of gay men in hockey. But I was curious about the numbers population wide.

According to Gallup in May of this year:

The U.S. Census Bureau documents the number of individuals living in same-sex households but has not historically identified individuals as gay or lesbian per se. Several other surveys, governmental and non-governmental, have over the years measured sexual orientation, but the largest such study by far has been the Gallup Daily tracking measure instituted in June 2012. In this ongoing study, respondents are asked "Do you, personally, identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender?" with 3.8% being the most recent result, obtained from more than 58,000 interviews conducted in the first four months of this year.

So those who identify as LGBT is 3.8% through the first 4 months of 2015.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx

The 10% number was from Kinsey, and apparently was adopted for political reasons, but was never based on any scientific surveys. Demographer Gary Gates at a UCLA think tank for law and public policy related to sexual orientation had this to say to NPR in 2011:

GATES: Well, so what I did was I found a variety of what we call population-based surveys. So surveys designed to try to estimate a characteristic that you can generalize to the population. And all of these surveys asked sexual orientation identity questions. So questions like, do you consider yourself to be - and then, you know, you can choose gay, lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual. And across those surveys, if you average it out, it comes to just shy of four percent. So about 3.8 percent who self-identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender.

You can read or listen to the whole thing here: http://www.npr.org/2011/06/08/137057974/-institute-of-medicine-finds-lgbt-health-research-gaps-in-us

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
I think there does need to be a caveat in that 3.8% that it's 3.8% willing to publicly identify themselves as such to a Gallup poll worker, but given that it's holding consistent it may be pretty close at least, even with that considered.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt

Oh, of course, and the Gallup link discusses that, and the difficulties of gathering such information based on what sort of definition is used, which is why they went with "self identified."

I did find it interesting that both the Gallup poll and Gary Gates's survey of surveys came up with the same number.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
3.8%, Jesus. I'm choosing to continue to believe the 10% number because it makes me feel a lot less horribly alone.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
If it helps, in raw numbers for the US, that works out to about 12 and a half million. That's a whole bunch! :)

(And Gates mentioned that aspect of the 10% number, even for himself. "If I was in a room with 50 people, I could think 'okay, there's probably four more people here like me.'")

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
Heh, I would look around the class in high school and be like "three others! three others!"
But I actually think 10% is a way high estimate. Not for homosexual behaviour, but for those who self-identity as gay/bi/etc, I think it's very ... optimistic. I mean yeah, probably 30-40% of my friends are queer ... but it's easy for those of us who have that kind of network to forget the makeup of society at large.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
Also, personally I wonder about bisexual tendencies. I figure without stigma in culture the percentage would be way higher. Rn, a better way to measure would probably to ask after sexual behaviours with the "same" sex in the past.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
OK Cupid had a stats blog that analyzed that at one point (they were really interesting posts imo) and I think the numbers for "at least tried it and enjoyed themselves" were like... over 50% for women.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
I know a fair number of people- not a lot, but some- who have had sex with people of both genders but wouldn't call themselves bi because it isn't either equal attraction or they don't feel like they're a part of the culture. or they would have sex with women but don't see themselves in a relationship with a women, etc.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
When there's less stigma and you're more open to it, you can wind up sleeping with people who don't necessarily turn your crank, to the point where sleeping with a woman because you like her as a person, you're starved for physical intimacy, and you've been up front about not really having a lot of sexual desire, but wanting to make her feel good and she's happy with that, well, such things can happen. At least in my experience.

That's part of why basing such surveys on actions isn't necessarily more clear.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
Yep. I could easily see an athlete who slept with a man in college/juniors/the summer, but wouldn't self-identity as anything but straight.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
DA

The "not feeling like they're part of the culture" is why I'm always wary about making sexual preferences or having same sex attraction anything more than what it is. The LGBT community can be really conforming and alienating for those who aren't very alternative, for a lack of a better word, and that makes people who aren't straight but don't identify with what's considered "queer culture" less likely to come out at all.

(And yes I am speaking from experience)

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
Cosigning your statement on the strange and sometimes alienating nature of the LGBT community ... and I say that as someone who does fit the bill of queer lady norms (I'm vaguely androgynous looking, 'alternative', involved in lestist things, etc).

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
That's not perfect either. There really isn't a foolproof way to measure it, whether it's simply defining what's being measured, false reporting, improperly eliminating a group through a bad filter, etc.

Re: Random Hockey Things

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt
Yeah, it doesn't matter if they go on to marry straight and are as homophobic as normal. The commenter about queer culture also has it right, maybe they do those practices but are not in the "subculture" for better lack of word. Not to suggest LGBT can easily turn straight or something, but I guess sexuality is to some extend fluid and the fewest people will be 100% like the definition.

(e.g. I identify as bi/pan, but am alot more interested in women rn, especially since most guys are really socialized in a way I couldn't imagine a relationship with. I could also completely understand that someone with the same preferences as me might say "I'm a lesbian" and leave it at that, because in praxis there's no... real difference, for me at least?)

Anyway, maybe I'm biased, but I always think the 3.8% number is probably too low due to the stigma around it. We probably won't see an end for that, of course, and I guess right now offering support to out and closeted individuals is the way to go. Idk how the "technically practicing/practiced" portion of people can be addressed in the future.