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This is the twenty-sixth post of Deke Dangle RPF Anon, a community for all your ice hockey anon meme needs.

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Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
My impression is that the women are a heck of a lot more LGBT-friendly than the men.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
+10000

Same here, at least from following twitter accounts

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
NA

I feel like the women have sort of a "log cabin Republican" thing going on. They're more LGBT-friendly, but they hold essentially the same attitudes on race and police brutality as the men (that is, largely really shitty ones).

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
I haven't seen that turn of phrase since 2004.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
The organization still exists, and it still weirds me the fuck out.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
I just checked the Pew research for the US by gender, and they are, but not by much. 58 percent of women support gay rights versus 52 percent of men. My quick google only brought up the data from 2001 onward. The gap was at its widest in in that span in 2011 when 41 percent of men supported gay rights versus 51 percent of women.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
I think people meant because of how many out female hockey players there are, which in turn is a consequence of how different male and female sports cultures are. You really can't use the overall gender split to figure out how one subculture within each gender will behave, though. That's...not how statistics work.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
AYRT

*head desk* No, I can't use overall patterns to predict how other subsets will behave. NOR WAS I CLAIMING THAT. I wouldn't even use it to make claims about hockey people in general because the stat is specific to the US. I was just mentioning it as an example of women not being as different from men, and people in general being far more homophobic than people realize a lot of the day. That's a rather unique misreading. Sorry, if this isn't you, but are you the person upthread that's claiming that someone demanded sociological proof that hockey players are more conservative than other groups? Because that sounds like a similar misrepresentation (misunderstanding?) about the conversation that people don't have to believe that all hockey players are voting for Trump.

Anyway, the comment I to here was not clear to me who they were referring to, I guess. I thought they meant that women who comment in hockey fandom were more LGBT-friendly than men who do. If they meant pro players, I think the fact that you've got semi-out female players and not even retired male ones who are semi-out speaks for itself. There have been out retired players in other North American sports like football for over 40 years now.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
AYRT

I wasn't that anon, but it seems like you're carrying over a grudge from that previous conversation about Trump (which I did not participate in). By your own admission, you're the one who misunderstood what people were talking to. Maybe getting so ott about it isn't the best way to move forward from that point.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
AYRT

I misunderstood who people were talking about, not what. Even if I had been talking about the same group of people, there was nothing about trying to figure out how specific people would behave like you wrote. So, yes, I misunderstood one thing, but I still think you were misreading my comment independent of that.

I don't know what's so OTT about bringing up a possible similar misunderstanding. Like I said, sorry, if it isn't you.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
da

I honestly don't know how you'd think that we were talking about women in hockey fandom. The OP's comment was entirely about players and the pro community.

I think the fact that you've got semi-out female players and not even retired male ones who are semi-out speaks for itself.

No kidding!

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
AYRT

It's not a big mystery; I misread this sentence: Fandom's having fun tearing into Torts because they already hated him anyways, but others aren't better, and the women aren't any better than the men.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
someone demanded sociological proof that hockey players are more conservative than other groups? Because that sounds like a similar misrepresentation (misunderstanding?) about the conversation that people don't have to believe that all hockey players are voting for Trump.

Someone literally did demand that, separately from other people raising valid points about why hockey players wouldn't be voting for Trump (not planning to vote, conservative =/= Trumps-supporting -- all valid points). But one person absolutely did argue that they didn't agree that most players would be Trump voters (ok) by mentioning polls of white, college-educated US men not supporting Trump and not being homophobic (absolutely irrelevant to that first opinion in a logically flawed way). When someone mentioned the sociological factors that likely would make the hockey demographic skew more conservatively than the general population, they demanded "sociological proof" to counter their "statistical evidence." You're the one misrepresenting the conversation.

Re: Fandom Venting

- From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2016-09-07 12:31 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt

Like nonnie above me said, I was talking about women in hockey, not women overall. I don't know what you think a poll about women in the US has to do with a population that's largely Canadian, anyway.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
NA

I don't follow women's hockey very closely, but I seem to remember someone bringing up a fair amount of women hockey players being fairly conservative the last time people were talking about the CWHL's failed YCP campaign.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
Yes, someone said there was a fair amount of pressure on female players to be attractive and not too stereotypically lesbian, as well as some concern among older players that being too open in public (being out to teammates and family was fine), such as PDA with other women, could affect their selection to the Olympics team.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt

They aren't less racist, which is what I was talking about.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
Yeah, like, I get why the original comment, the way it was phrased, would lead to someone to want to think about broader "social justice," but, like, unless Tortorella has been overtly anti-LGBT or something, it's pretty obvious what the remark about the women not being any better was referring to, specifically racism. And it's pretty fucking jarring to see someone venting their frustration about how hockey players and hockey culture, male and female alike, are deeply racist, and to see the first response is BUT THE WOMEN LGBT!!!

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
sa

Also, to airt/OP -- re: then women, I assume you were referring to Kendall Coyne's twitter rant about Kaepernick? I think she also retweeted one of those gross "this vet without legs will stand for the anthem but you won't!1!" pictures, but I could be remembering wrong and that could be a different player.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt/OP

That was one of the things I was talking about, yes. But a bunch of other top, top US women also liked a bunch of similar tweets, too (which Twitter thought I "might like" because they did, ugh).

And ugh, I'm not saying people need to drop their favs over this or anything (like, I'm still following them, for now), but seeing people act like women's hockey is so Ideologically Pure (why should it be?) is frustrating. Someone I know tweeted about JT Brown's tweet, like "I'm excited but this is how awfully low my bar is for hockey dudes, I'm excited about a man being pro social justice, hockey dudes are terrible!!" and, like.... which of your white lady favs is doing better? The women have been terrible on this. Way to diminish the bravery of a player taking a stand. Not to make a bigger deal of a tweet than it is, but a black man publicly clapping back against a white coach's public remarks, implicitly calling Tortorella racist, when he knows very few players and coaches would agree with him, is not nothing and not proof of your "low bar," your bar is low because you and friends squee over Sidney Crosby saying "girls" instead of "guys" when that guy has never done a thing that would get him blowback, for a cause more important than himself.

(Ugh, sorry this became a rant. I thought I'd gotten it out with my vent, but I woke up to this shit on my TL and ugh...)

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
I totally get you nonnie. I feel like certain women's hockey fans in this fandom think that liking women's hockey somehow absolves them from also being into men's hockey and all of its shit. But it's not like every woman who plays hockey is some kind of perfect social justice angel, they're just women who play professional hockey. That attitude that they're somehow ~better in terms of these things than their male counterparts is persistent though.

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
> about the women not being any better was referring to, specifically racism

Before the ayrt clarified, I had no idea that they were referring to racism specifically. There was a fairly long thread about homophobia happening at the same time, which might be why the anon upthread pointed out that professional women hockey players tended to support LGBT issues, while professional men hockey players were less likely to do so.

Or maybe I'm just sheltered, and the racism was clearly inferred ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
I thought it was pretty clear??? It doesn't say racism explicitly, but... but someone says they're upset about hockey's takes on Kaepernick, there's no need to generalize that? Maybe you are sheltered, maybe it's that fandom is usually more preoccupied with general "social justice" in a "your fave is problematic!" way that makes it seem natural to want to lump these issues together in conversation and to counter one way in which someone's ""bad"" with another way in which they're ""good."" Idk.

(But also, in retrospect, maybe it was clearer to me because I think I know what tweets OP was specifically referring to re: women players, which, if you didn't know about, also makes it more vague.)

Re: Fandom Venting

From: (Anonymous)
ayrt

Yeah, I hadn't seen the tweet you referred to, so I hadn't made the connection.

But you're also right. I tend to stay away from social media accounts with views I don't agree with, so it's probably confirmation bias on my part that I think everyone thinks like me.